The Community as a Whole

[Unholyrath]

Ever since Tom switched over to Twitch(or more accurately, started streaming again after finishing his move), the community has never been the same compared to the Ustream days. So many issues have arisen since then, and I honestly haven't been able to bring myself to even enter the chat. However, for the last week or so, I actually went back into the chat, to see how things had improved.

Imagine my shock when I discovered things had only gotten worse.

Allow me to elaborate:

The Community
First off, let's admit it. There is no real community. We have ~170 members in the Steam community, yet only about 30 people on average in the chat, and about half the chat count that actually view the stream. And only about 3-4 people(including myself) even care to visit the forums on a regular basis, outside of posting images of the number 69 or an instance of "pit" in a game played on stream. The Steam community doesn't even have events ever set up.

Why are these things going completely unused? I remember the old forums having detailed records of (most) every Wiiplay night. Forum Games were posted in frequently. Now you're lucky to see someone posting outside of signing up for Mumble, and those people generally made an account just for that purpose.

With 170 members on Steam, how hard would it be to set up any number of multiplayer events for the community? There's plenty of games on Steam the community could play together, with a number of those even being free-to-play. Not counting all of the others that aren't on there, but could still be set up from it.

And speaking of the community...

The Chat...
..is terrible. While the rules are generally enforced, the punishments are so minor it takes NUMEROUS offenses to even begin to constitute real punishment. Even looking at the new system, it takes 3 offenses to even get 1 hour of banned time. If someone is being that much of a problem for the chat, they should be getting far more than one hour outside of it.

Additionally, the DP system seems to have very little use anymore. Back on Ustream, the core function was to gain the nickchanger, which Rizon gives everyone access to by default. As for his other items, they are generally cosmetic. Color changes on the chat shown on stream(which only shows 2 lines at any given time), stream gamertags, which I haven't seen anyone use in AGES. And of course, a Wiiplay selection. Except it seems very few nights are actually devoted to Tom playing a game now. As well as entrance/exit sounds, but I'll cover them shortly.

Of course, that is the smaller issues with the chat. The most glaring issue is...

The Bot
I get it, some people like Banon. However, numerous people find the random noises, pointless "quips", and the sudden jokes more annoying than anything else. When someone sits there and randomly throws out "Your mom" or "in bed" after people talk, eventually they aren't being amusing; they are being flat out obnoxious.

That is, of course, when he works. It seems being flooded with so many pointless scripts has a tendency to cause him to break in numerous ways. Imagine how much more fluid he would be if all he had was essential scripts. Hell, if people like the jokes so much, let them get them messaged to them, rather than the bot randomly broadcasting it to the entire chat.

And finally, and by far most importantly:

The Stream
And this is probably the most depressing downturn. I get it Tom, you don't have as much time for streaming anymore. And that is perfectly fine, I have no issue with that. What I do have an issue with, however, is how you've seemingly stopped caring.

A while back, I noticed you were playing Skyward Sword, in the process of gaining the Song of the Hero. And you were in the process of getting the part involving swimming underwater to collect notes(I haven't played the game, so I don't exactly know the area). But then I noticed something odd: You weren't losing oxygen. And then it hit me:

You were using cheats to get through the game.

And then again, during Metroid Prime 2, I see you flying. Not to mention the max Missiles and light/dark ammo.

Then it hit me: You weren't playing because you wanted to play it. You were playing because everyone else wanted you to play it.

Have you really stopped caring enough about actually playing the game that you'd resort to this method? If so, then stop playing them. No one is forcing you to play any game. You are under no contract to play or do anything on the stream.

Wiiplay was a good idea, back when you had the time to do it nightly. But now that you have work and a life, you should just stream when you feel like it. And stream whatever YOU want to play. And if you don't want to play games that often, just move to Justin. I remember back on Ustream when you did those piano lessons(for Yuki I believe). Those were quite interesting, and I'm sure numerous people enjoyed it. Same with the Mario Paint creations. Or if you really don't have the itch to stream anymore, just stop. No one would fault you for it.

Honestly, I used to generally enjoy the "community" and most of the people within it. But with how it currently is, I find it quite hard to...

[KreamCheese]

It's true that our community has changed, for better or worse is up to the beholder, but change is always going to happen. It's impractical to have something that doesn't change when we're in a world that's forever changing.

As for the rules thing on banning times, I have no say. That's something the mods and Tom have all say about. Also, the ban-n-shop is still up and active, with things in it; it's just that people don't get anything.

About Banon, I agree in that some things do get annoying from him, like the 'your mom' or '...in bed' addons to people's text; although I don't want to see it disappear altogether, either. His long jokes, however, I could do without.

Now, Tom may not play a game the way you play or the way that you want him to play. Deal with it, I guess. He plays how he wants to: with cheats or not. Also, He may not like the game, yes, and he may be playing it because it's what everyone would like him to play, also yes, BUT he's not forced to play anything we ask him to! He plays what we ask because he cares for us probably just the same as/if not more than his own needs/wants. He has the ability to say 'no, I don't wanna play that' .. in fact, he did that just the other day. He was playing a game for a birthday of someones... and he was having some fun, but he wanted to stop playing it... and he did.

Another note. I somewhat agree with you, Rath, in that now that Tom has moved and has a few more things in his life, maybe WiiPlay is a bit much to thoroughly stick to every night. It's up to Tom, though, weather it's too much or not, ultimately.


People change and our community is ever-changing. If you don't like that, that's fine, nothing wrong with that at all. But it's not going to stop changing. It's probably never going to be exactly like it used to be at any point in time in the past, in the future. It's just something we have to deal with and adapt to.


I dunno...just some of my thoughts and opinions.. on your thoughts and opinions... on the stream and everything.

[Pelord]

He was playing a game for a birthday of someones... and he was having some fun, but he wanted to stop playing it... and he did.

Would that be when he played Perfect Dark for my birthday? I was fine with him stopping when he did, if you were talking about that. He gave the game nearly an hour and we were about to switch to Mario Kart Wii, anyway.

Anyway, to address Rath:

Steam: There is a lot of unused potential with the Steam community, and I agree it should be integrated more with Stream events. I'd arrange some events myself, but my internet as of late has been questionable at best. When I am able to set up something, it's a random on the fly kind of thing, like how I hosted a L4D2 lobby last Friday night because Mav suggested it. The Steam Workshop is also something that could use some more attention, especially with the large variety of games available.

Chat: Not really going to get into talking about the chat room or Banon much, except for a few things relating to the Ban-N-Shop. The Stream Gamertags were actually brought up recently. Tom said he would like to have them return regularly to the slideshow. Though I don't really know why the few that were up were removed in the first place (I only really remember ones for Wyvern and I think Guru), or if anyone has actually requested to buy one recently. There have been newer features added, though, such as changing your in-stream nick and text colors.

As for cheats/game enhancements and not wanting to play the games: a lot of people in chat agreed that the stamina meter in Skyward Sword was too annoying and that they wouldn't have cared if Tom removed it (he did offer the use of other codes, but I didn't approve of those). I don't know if he also used an infinite air code, but at least he made me believe it was actually an oversight linked to the infinite stamina. For Metroid, it's the exact opposite. Tom decided to use them to make things quicker since he's already played the series, but due to getting stuck out of bounds and locking up Prime 1, and nearly making Prime 2 impassable, most of us question if it was the right choice. There is something that disappointed me a bit during Tom's Skyward Sword run, and it wasn't related to infinite stamina/air. He gave up on two (required) areas of the game and had Wyvern play them for him (yet by the end of the game, Tom said he liked it aside from Wii MotionPlus controls).

Tom's Availability: We do have the Community Gamers Club, which I think Tom himself mentioned was mostly created with the intent of having content on the stream when he was no longer able to stream on a regular basis. The Wiiplay time slots for three days out of the week are claimed by members. This leaves the four remaining days, but Monday seems to rely mostly on Wyvern's availability, Saturday is questionable (though it's a near guaranteed Mario Kart Wii night if Tom's around), and I honestly don't know about Thursday anymore. This leaves Tom's only consistent Wiiplay day since his move (save for two or three days) as Sunday. There are plenty of active CGC members who can fill in the open times (Bippo has been streaming Final Fantasy games quite a bit recently), but there are also plenty with the ability who seem to have disappeared (I believe Sunflowercandy was given access, but I've never seen her stream, ever). Plus, many people just want to watch Tom. Tom has been doing other things on stream at other times of the day, though. He's started the Cooking TomBob segments (which actually do quite well), and he has done some music theory lessons over the past month.

Overall, I still enjoy being a member of the stream when I see everyone having a good time. I do agree with a lot of your points, though. I must say... none of those things make me think that I want to leave, but things could be a lot better in those aspects.

[GizmoEx]

The changes really started when Tom moved. The stream has been different ever since, but that's really because of Tom's work. It's unfortunate that Tom's availability has been low. The main reason I watch the Stream is Tom, next to the community (and the games of course!) However, real life comes first so I'm sure we can all understand. I'm sure its not because of lack of interest or care. My availability to watch the steam is lower as well since I've started working.

No disrespect to anyone, but watching the CGC just isn't the same as watching Tom. It's really not the TomBobBlender show without Tom, but it is a good alternative for when Tom isn't available and it gives the community a chance to show off their gaming skills. Tom gave me a stream key several months ago, I've just never used it. I was thinking of finally doing a stream maybe during Shocktober.

[Stuart444]

I agree with everything that Rath has said.

I'll say nothing else because I'm pretty sure anything else I have to say would offend a good number of people

- Stu

[empressdonna]

Things have been changing a lot recently, and I fully understand that change happens and the stream will probably never be like it was on Ustream again, but there are things we can do to try help like using the steam groups and forum more, especially for trying to set community games up.

I wish the forum got the kind of buzz it did back on the old forum, but I understand if people don't want to use the forum when we have the chatroom as well as a Facebook group, but let's face it, some members of the community don't like or have Facebook or Twitter, and it's not always easy to organize things in the chatroom.

I understand that people may not like CGCers as well because, people generally come to see Tom play but I wonder, is this because we play whatever we want? Is it because some of us use microphones and some don't? I don't quite get it.

This is supposed to help the community, it's supposed to take some of the pressure off Tom...

[TomBobBlender]

Odd, I just discovered this post today. Anyway, here we go~

The Community

Communities come and go, much like friends. They also aren't absolute/forever. I'm not a viewer junky so this really isn't a concern to me. Whether it's 3 or 30 viewers, it's all the same to me. When I have the time/plans to arrange a Steam-specific event, I will. The forum was never intended to be an incredibly active place. Ever. It was a place to store stream information, and that was pretty much my intent, and I've mentioned this many times throughout the years. You may have missed that.

The Chat

I'm content with the stream rules and how discipline is managed.

Banondorf

It's an ongoing project, and I'm not a professional programmer.

The Stream

I've never stopped caring, and I will never stop caring. Also, I play games the way I want to play them, especially if it's my second time through. Also, no one 'made' me play anything. I wanted to play Metroid Prime 2 because I was having fun with how things were going. Also, who are you (Rath) or anyone to tell me to 'stop playing'? I can do what I want, when I want, and HOW I want. Sorry your feelings are hurt. There are many times when I blatantly ignore cohosts suggestions and do it my way. It's nothing new or unexpected. If I have a good time doing what I'm doing and it's not hurting anybody, then who cares. Yes, my job is THE most important at the moment and it brings the most joy to my life. Sadly it directly collides with most traditional streaming schedules, but I'm fine with that. I have been streaming in the mornings/early afternoons on most weekdays and it's been working out quite well so far, and I'm quite happy with that.

Hope this helps!

<3 Tom

[Unholyrath]

Odd, I just discovered this post today. Anyway, here we go~

The Community

Communities come and go, much like friends. They also aren't absolute/forever. I'm not a viewer junky so this really isn't a concern to me. Whether it's 3 or 30 viewers, it's all the same to me. When I have the time/plans to arrange a Steam-specific event, I will. The forum was never intended to be an incredibly active place. Ever. It was a place to store stream information, and that was pretty much my intent, and I've mentioned this many times throughout the years. You may have missed that.

The Chat

I'm content with the stream rules and how discipline is managed.

Banondorf

It's an ongoing project, and I'm not a professional programmer.

The Stream

I've never stopped caring, and I will never stop caring. Also, I play games the way I want to play them, especially if it's my second time through. Also, no one 'made' me play anything. I wanted to play Metroid Prime 2 because I was having fun with how things were going. Also, who are you (Rath) or anyone to tell me to 'stop playing'? I can do what I want, when I want, and HOW I want. Sorry your feelings are hurt. There are many times when I blatantly ignore cohosts suggestions and do it my way. It's nothing new or unexpected. If I have a good time doing what I'm doing and it's not hurting anybody, then who cares. Yes, my job is THE most important at the moment and it brings the most joy to my life. Sadly it directly collides with most traditional streaming schedules, but I'm fine with that. I have been streaming in the mornings/early afternoons on most weekdays and it's been working out quite well so far, and I'm quite happy with that.

Hope this helps!

<3 Tom

Unfortunately, I have very restricted internet right now, and am unable to make any enlongated posts (and trust me, I have plenty to comment on this), but for now I will simply post with this:

I find it amusing, Tom, how you managed to ignore about 75% of not only the comments I have made on this thread(especially concerning the chat and Banon, but also those of the other people who have made remarks about things they'd like improved as well.

And as for your "Sorry your feelings are hurt." comment -- It seems reading that paragraph that it is in fact *your* feelings that appear to be hurt.

[Unholyrath]

Seeing as I have semi-reliable internet(Gotta love brand new gas stations within 2 blocks of you that provide free wi-fi), I guess I can go ahead and give my more precise two cents on your post, Tom.

The Community

Communities come and go, much like friends. They also aren't absolute/forever. I'm not a viewer junky so this really isn't a concern to me. Whether it's 3 or 30 viewers, it's all the same to me. When I have the time/plans to arrange a Steam-specific event, I will. The forum was never intended to be an incredibly active place. Ever. It was a place to store stream information, and that was pretty much my intent, and I've mentioned this many times throughout the years. You may have missed that.

Firstly, I don't care if you're a viewer-junkie or not. I don't think I've honestly seen a streamer that only cares about how many people they have watching, even if they have partnership. But when the viewer count/community population goes down and doesn't recover, that's not "oh well", that means there's a problem with your community you refuse to address.

Secondly, Forums a place for discussion. Sure, they work well for record keeping as well, but you could do that just as easily on the stream page or on a seperate page on the main site. I've seen a number of streamers who even list all of the games they are going to/have played on their stream's Info section. The primary use for a forum is for elongated discussion or event planning, as not everyone will be in a chatroom at one time to benefit from these things.

The Chat

I'm content with the stream rules and how discipline is managed.

Banondorf

It's an ongoing project, and I'm not a professional programmer.

The only thing I can comment on here is your complete lack of interest in discussing these things. I know of numerous people(including some who have posted), that have had issues with the quality of the chat and Banon, especially when Banon's sounds are concerned.

And I know full well you aren't a programmer -- Fox does the bot's scripting for you. However, you're the one who tells him what to put in there in that regard.

The Stream

I've never stopped caring, and I will never stop caring. Also, I play games the way I want to play them, especially if it's my second time through. Also, no one 'made' me play anything. I wanted to play Metroid Prime 2 because I was having fun with how things were going. Also, who are you (Rath) or anyone to tell me to 'stop playing'? I can do what I want, when I want, and HOW I want. Sorry your feelings are hurt. There are many times when I blatantly ignore cohosts suggestions and do it my way. It's nothing new or unexpected. If I have a good time doing what I'm doing and it's not hurting anybody, then who cares. Yes, my job is THE most important at the moment and it brings the most joy to my life. Sadly it directly collides with most traditional streaming schedules, but I'm fine with that. I have been streaming in the mornings/early afternoons on most weekdays and it's been working out quite well so far, and I'm quite happy with that.

As I stated in my previous little bit, *you* in fact seem to be the one whose feelings are hurt. And I asked a few higher-up people about your choice of Prime 2 and the cheats used. Or should I also go into how you use cheats during your multiplayer sessions of Mario Kart?

And yes, I know full well how you tend to ignore the actually useful(though they are quite rare) co-hosts and do your own thing. While it has a tendancy to be painful to watch, I've grown moderately used to it. But here's the thing about this point: I didn't make any comments concerning that.

Finally, it seems I need to restate something: It's fine if life is more important than streaming. But even trying to hold onto the old notion of Wiiplay/Game Over/etc. is just silly. Even having people pick a majority of what you play now is silly: you're playing on your time, play what you want.

In all honestly, it's rather depressing to see it take you a few weeks to notice this thread, and ignore at least 50% of the comments/concerns made in this thread. You don't even cover some of the comments other people made, especially concerning the CGC -- an idea that was good on paper, but ended up being a rather decent flop, as even fewer people than normal would even care to watch. You claim to care, but everything you've done recently puts that greatly into question.

[TomBobBlender]

thanks for your feedback!